Will Fulwider 0:14
Welcome to Field Notes, Michael, you are here for maybe a last episode. Is that true?

Michael Geissinger 0:22
That is true. You’re stealing my thunder already on my last episode, I was going to share it as one of my fun facts. So I’m going to be changing roles to work as an agronomist in private industry. It will be a good move, hopefully, and the entire industry of agriculture is apt to benefit from from my work and so

Will Fulwider 0:48
Very humble, that’s what you know when I think of you anything

Michael Geissinger 0:51
Yes First, yes, most people do the humble Michael is my nickname in these parts, but so glad to be here. What are we talking about today?

Will Fulwider 1:01
Well, we are talking about transitions on farm, transitions, talking about transitions to organic and a generational transition from one generation of farming to the next. And we have father son duo, Darren and Junior Eichelkraut, who are joining us today. I’m really excited to talk with them, but before that, you have a pertinent or a fun fact for us about organic in Wisconsin.

Michael Geissinger 1:26
Yeah, for sure. So you can’t steal it from me entirely. I still got a fun fact for everyone. So this is coming from Wisconsin Public Radio. And the fun fact is Wisconsin is second only to California for the state with the highest number of organic farms in the US. So did you know that?

Will Fulwider 1:50
I did actually. I did know that? Pretty mind blowing. Yeah, and California is a much bigger state, so lot more farms there. So that, I mean, that’s a pretty, pretty incredible fact, and we’ve got some organic farmers on to talk with us today. Like I said, Darren and Junior, who farm near Paoli, Wisconsin, just southwest of Madison. They farm about 50 cows, dairy, and they transitioned organic several years ago, and they’re going to talk to us a little bit about their story. So Darren Junior, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourselves and your farm?

Okay, I’m Junior. Eichelkraut, I am a I was actually the fourth generation to own and operate our farm. Our farm is a century farm. It was a century farm in 2021 my great grandparents actually purchased it in 1921 for their son, one of their sons, to be able to take over his own farm. So that’s how it got started in our family.

Darren Eichelkraut 3:00
This is Darren Eichelkraut. I am currently running the operation with my wife and two kids, and dad is still fully involved. As far as helping out with milking and tractor work, we run about 280 acres tillable. With about 200 tillable acres owned and another 80 rented. We are mostly a forage based as far as 100 acres of grass, alfalfa hay, about 100 acres of pasture, and usually between 20,25 acres of corn, all harvested for high moisture shell corn, I don’t do any silage. Triticale is a big crop of mine that I take all the way through to grain. We combine that, I feed that to the cattle, and the the goal of the farm is basically to be self sustaining as possible. I purchase very little inputs. That’s kind of the basis of our farm.

Michael Geissinger 4:02
Great, yeah, thanks for that introduction. I love the insight on minimizing spending on inputs, especially right now, during the time when inputs are are so high and so that bottom line is really important. I just want to, like, set the scene a little bit more for people that are are listening to this. And so you guys mentioned that the farm had transitioned to organic at some point. And so could you talk a little bit more about what the farm looked like before that transition and what the motivation was behind that transition to organic.

Junior Eichelkraut 4:43
At the time I was farming it as, as same as basically the same as it is now, there were obviously some differences in that we were still spraying chemicals on the land and for the crops and also using. And olds, things such as little lights for the cows and antibiotics and everything. But with the turn of the century, things got a little tighter. So yeah, that’s when we started to think that, what are we going to do here? Because things got to the point of where our 10th of an acre of of three to $5 a dozen sweet corn and my wife’s beautician work got us through some very lean times. I mean, the milk had dropped in price to the lower teens, and eventually got the $10 per hundredweight which relates all the way back to my father’s time, when he was milking back in the early 60s, so replacing equipment got real difficult to take care of. So organic kind of got to be an an option, and unfortunately, well, I shouldn’t say unfortunately, I should say, at the time, I knew it was a three year transition to get into it. I also knew that I was in my mid 50s already. So what am I going to do? And that’s where the next generation come into play.

Darren Eichelkraut 6:17
So I was off farm, out of high school, left right away and work construction for a bit, and at the time, did not have interest in farming. It was until coming back home and being away from the farm for a bit, you know, just started thinking a little more about future and raising kids that it was, yeah, I’d like to come back to the farm, but, I mean, our neighbors were all growing at the time, so competition for land was huge. I did not want to manage people, you know, other niche markets, such as a creamery or marketing your own product is a whole mess in itself, and I didn’t want to go that route. So kind of, you know, lean towards the organic part of it that was really kind of getting up and going at that time. So mom and dad said, Well, if you’re going to commit, we’ll do the leg work. So luckily, I didn’t have to try and start farming in a transition. They kind of took that, that hard part on, but I was committed at the time, so we learned the process together, so that that worked out really well.

Will Fulwider 7:30
Nice and Junior, can you talk a little bit more in depth about what that transition was like? You said, you know, there’s three years where you have to pretty much have a lapse in going from conventional where you can’t and then you can’t spray or do anything that would violate the organic rules for three years, and then you can finally be certified. Can you talk a little bit about navigating that transition?

Junior Eichelkraut 7:54
Certainly, you know, the biggest thing was gathering information as to how do we go about this? Where do we start? Who do we contact to find solutions and products for our transition that help us well, that we have to do and and also help us along. And so we actually are the organic convention in La Crosse was one of the big things, very major. And also our agronomist and nutritionist at the Bio Ag, they also held field days for organics and stuff. And so these were things that we started going to. And so once we got going to these, which was quite a few years, actually, I mean, several years, and we went to them after we did get transitioned too but we we learned a lot. There were very few farms around here. I mean, there was only one that was close by. And anytime I had a difficult question, they didn’t have an answer for me, so it was a matter of trying to find someone to answer these questions. There were a lot of things to be taken care of, weed control, I was kind of already there. We cultivated and rotary hoed already. That actually got a little more difficult as the years progressed, simply because our weed seed amount was much was growing. Giant ragweeds were a huge problem, and so we had to cut down on row crops for one thing. Buffer zones were another thing we had to deal with. And at first, I just kept putting row crops in right up to the edge of the neighbors, and then separately harvesting and selling these row crops, which didn’t amount to much because maybe I only had 30 bushel of soybeans to take the town and and maybe 150 bushel of corn, because it couldn’t be used on the farm. So I had to get rid of it and prove that I did. It was somewhat of a hassle, but it could be done. Another thing is that we had all your diseases and problems that cows would have that we no longer could use antibiotics for. We couldn’t use the lutalyse to get a cow to ovulate, different things of that nature, and even finding vets that would continue to help us and have the knowledge to do the things that we needed to do differently. So there were a lot of things in that regard. One of the last things that we actually had as a major problem was flies. And the thing of it was is, yeah, we could clean out and clean out and clean out. But when you you got stable flies coming in from the pasture with the cows and Horn flies that were, you know, breeding out there and repopulating. What do we do with them? We no longer can spray Well, we finally found out, after about a a year of struggling, that mineral oil would work if you covered them with mineral oil, and they would suffocate and die. But that only takes care of that problem to a certain degree. So yeah, there were, there were definitely some issues that we had to address, and information gathering was the big thing.

Will Fulwider 11:42
And I know that you all do quite a bit of grazing. Now, was that always a part of your farming system, or was that instituted kind of after the organic certification?

Junior Eichelkraut 11:52
A good question. So I never did stop grazing from my grandfather and my father. We always kept grazing. Grazing procedures actually are what transitioned. We got into smaller and smaller paddocks so that we eventually got to grazing you know what the cows need just for this half of the day versus going into a 15 acre field and letting them go and cutting down on milk production while that pasture was getting the best, was getting eaten off and they were getting less and less stuff they liked. So yeah, we we we actually had to transition that part of it, but we never stopped.

Michael Geissinger 12:41
Yeah, you guys had mentioned in the transition process, just the need for, like, more information, and even from grazing, it sounds like you’ve picked up on, obviously, like more management intensive, like rotational type grazing compared to, like continuous grazing. So I’m curious. You already mentioned a few things, but were there any other sources of like information that you found particularly helpful, like if, if I was a farmer listening to this podcast, and I was maybe interested in in moving to organic, were there certain agencies or organizations or individuals or groups that you felt really were impactful and helpful, like during that time?

Darren Eichelkraut 13:32
Well, things have changed quite a bit. I said when, when we started? So we got certified at the end of 2010. There wasn’t a lot of products, a lot of resources. You had to really look for it where now I can very easily find information simply by searching online. And some of the best information comes from just your organic group, say, on on Facebook or social media platforms where you can get involved in groups and just ask other peers what they’re doing, what’s working, what’s failing. Even, you know, a lot of your co ops and stuff now have an organic division, or, you know, if they don’t have it where you’re farming, they at least have another location that, hey, that’s what they specialize in. So resources are are actually kind of easy to find now, and it’s just a matter of finding what works for your practices. Most of my products that I get now, for the cattle, I order everything through Leedstone. I mean, they’re a big company that carries a lot of products, and they have a very big organic lineup. And there are several other companies that, right along with their conventional products, they have a whole lineup of organic so it’s not hard, as long as you’re willing to reach out and just ask, Hey, you know, I this is my problem. It’s it’s not near as hard to find solutions. Now. What it was, you know, 10,15 years ago.

Junior Eichelkraut 15:02
Through the years, a lot of like he was saying, a lot of these companies have gotten some organic departments which initially weren’t there in a lot, in many places. So yes, it has expanded in the more recent years so that we can find things a little easier. But back when we started transitioning, I wasn’t so savvy on computers and internet and everything, and I don’t know what all would have been available at that time. So yeah, it’s definitely changed.

Will Fulwider 15:41
Yeah, it sounds like there’s quite a bit more infrastructure for navigating that transition than there used to be. One thing that you were talking about. I mean, it just challenges galore, kind of, with navigating that transition, but also the cropping system challenges you all, you all have that started to emerge in that transition, and I’m wondering, kind of beyond the the agronomic elements, were there challenges from a kind of generational transition as well that you all kind of encountered along the way?

Junior Eichelkraut 16:13
Well, actually, when I took over the farm, my dad told me one day that you’re going to take over the farm, we’re going to write up a contract, and then away we go. And that’s how it happened. And he left for town and got a job and and that was it. So it was easy. It was not easy for me to take over in a few aspects, but for the most part, I had already been doing most everything. Where Darren and I, when we did the transfer of, or transition, excuse me, of of our farm, we kind of had things well in mind ahead of time. And boy, I tell you, as far as problems with that, no, we started out with a a promissory note drawn up by a lawyer, of course, and registered with the Register of Deeds that he would buy all the livestock and the machinery and the feed that was on hand, rent the farmland, and that’s what we did for that part of it. Once that was paid off, then he started purchasing the part of the farm. Our farm is split by a road. There’s 100 acres on one side and 150 on the other. And so the set of farm buildings is on the 100 acres. And so he purchased that. What year was that? Do you remember that three years ago, now, about three years ago, on a land contract. So that’s what we’re doing right now, is having him purchase that part of the farm, and when that is taken care of, he will purchase the other side of the farm. So really, there were no problems with transition, because he is the boss. I am only there as an advisory person. Sometimes my information that he gets from me is it’s kind of thrown right out the window, because not Dad, that’s not no, that doesn’t mean anything. And then other times it’s like, oh yeah, I never thought of that part. So it’s been great in that department there. There’s been a great, easy transition.

Darren Eichelkraut 18:28
Well, and we communicated from day one. There was no, I know this, and you’re not going to know this type of information. It was if there’s a question, here’s the answer. Here’s what I know, we kind of set up expectations from the beginning. Is because dad still I paid him once we switched. So he became employee, a paid employee. And I know I had heard of other farms transitioning where, well, one day, dad’s in charge, and he makes all decisions, and the next day he says, well, no, that’s your responsibility, you do it. And so we tried to just keep communication open so that there wasn’t that stepping on toes and, you know, getting worked up about things that really aren’t important. So that’s been big. It’s just communication.

Will Fulwider 19:19
Yeah, I mean, I want to almost double down on that and say how important that is. Just really stress that, like communication and from the get go, and also, way before you’re thinking about doing this too, you know, hearing, you know, I hear a lot of stories about transition farm transitions that have not even happened because it got to such a point of conflict in the end, and it, you know, that farm is probably not going to continue on in that family, which is, you know, really, really sad, but it’s hard to navigate that transition. Sounds like you all having that communication from the get go was super important, and very clear and open communication. And I’m just wondering what. When you how long before the actual transition of the farm where Darren bought, you know, the livestock and the equipment and started renting the land, had you started to talk about that transition, you know, how many years prior did you kind of load that conversation and open those lines of communication?

Junior Eichelkraut 20:17
Well, that would have happened when you first it was a very eventful day. I mean, it’s something when your dreams are realized, when your son tells you that, well, I plan on taking the farm over and raising my kids here. Well, I’d have to say it kind of took off from there. And when that would have been, would have been at least probably 2006 wouldn’t it?

Darren Eichelkraut 20:44
Yeah, I was working at Ace Hardware at that time, and my mom, who had always worked on the farm, had just started a full time job, and that was kind of the transition of of bringing me in, but I was starting, you know, once we made that decision, it was okay, when I can afford them, I’ll buy a calf, a heifer calf, when it drops, and that’s my calf. Dad’s going to raise her. She’s going to be a part of the herd, and he’s going to cover the feed and everything. And when she has her first calf, that calf becomes mine, but the milk is his. So I started to build a herd. Also, when we needed a new piece of equipment or something needed to be updated, I would make those purchases, and that gave me a relationship with the bank that I still have today. So when time came for me to start making really big purchases, it they didn’t bat an eye. It’s no, we’ve been working with you for almost a decade already, and this is, I mean, I didn’t have to write up any business plans or anything. It was just, you want money. Here it is. But that was built up slowly over time, just as the cattle machinery were. So when that first promissory note came, I think I owned the entire heifer herd at that point, and a couple cows. So that was not a huge animal purchase. And I had, I don’t know, a tractor to at that time, the milk cooler, a couple things. So that really helped that initial payment not being so large, and me having a little ground to stand on.

Michael Geissinger 22:20
Awesome. Yeah. I love hearing all the insights you guys have about like that, that generational transition and kind of just like what your personal experience was, what was with it. I want to backtrack, just a little bit too organic, I guess I’m going to backtrack, but I also want to look ahead into the future, and so you guys have been doing this for a while now. So what could you just run I mean, we’ve already started talking about it just naturally in conversation. But like, Would you mind just running through like, what you’ve seen the biggest benefits of being organic are, or maybe even what some of the biggest maybe disadvantages are in your mind right now? And maybe you can speak a little bit like the on the management piece, like on farm, but also speak a little bit into what your experience has been like on the organic markets.

Junior Eichelkraut 23:22
Yeah, well, obviously, our primary reason for going organic, the initial reason was financial. And like I say, at that time we were during the transition period, we were getting $10 milk, and when we finally got certified, I had three milk companies that wanted our milk, and all three of them were on my doorstep at one time, after putting me off for a whole year when I could have been certified because the milk markets had all kind of crashed to a certain degree. That first milk check that came in before December’s milk was a double milk check. It was such a wow. Here we go. And so obviously financial reason is was the number one starting reason. But since then, we’ve learned so much about organics in general, and come to realize that, okay, our soil is much healthier. We have a good soil life out there, therefore our plants are healthier, therefore our animals are healthier, and things that we’re eating and not being exposed to chemicals like we were before. We’re healthier too. So the health is a big, big issue that we’ve seen, and so it’s, it’s, it’s been both of those things. We do enjoy talking with other people that are organic and what they’ve accomplished. And and the things that they’ve seen also. So it’s it’s been great in that regard.

Darren Eichelkraut 25:06
Something that’s kind of shifted in management from when we started till now. I used to sell a semi load or two of organic corn. Used to do soybeans. They’d roast them on farm. Every once in a while, I get to sell a load of soybeans. I mean, organically, at the time, corn was at $10 a bushel, these soybeans were going for close to 20 It was great, but we were running our equipment non stop. Dad and I were on cultivators. We were up pulling it was ridiculous. And I my family was just starting, and I was missing out on, you know, my daughter being a baby, and kind of looked at some other farmers that were doing less, as far as cropping and systems like that, and took a step back. And I tried a year without growing any corn, kind of rationed off what I had so I didn’t go completely grain free. What I found in that year’s time a great middle ground, and found that you really organically the way we farm, in our scale, I did better off financially doing less than trying to chase that production. I think in the beginning, our cows might have been averaging close to 70 pounds a day per head. Now I no longer grow soybeans. I do not purchase any protein from my herd. I grow about 25 acres of corn. That gives my cattle usually close to about 12 pounds of corn a day. So we’ve cut that back. My production for cattle is down to right around 50 pounds. Is an average per day my components are up, but the more I have simplified things, the the better off we are, and actually financially, the better off we are. It was terrifying not having those semi loads of grain to sell those first couple years is the how am I going to afford things? Well, I do purchase fertilizer for my land, but since I wasn’t putting all those row crops in, I cut way back on that, the fuel I consumed, the lubricants, the wear items, it was amazing, cutting back what that cut out that way, and then Just time in general. I have time now so management has changed drastically. As far as, rather than trying to force your hand with nature on how much can I take from you, it’s more so what can I work with and and what can I get out of what’s available? And so that’s what’s changed in my cattle are much healthier. I rarely have a vet come out. It might be for a milk fever only because I’m I’m really struggling with learning how to IV. I can treat for a milk fever. I’m just no good at that. So that’s about the only thing I have a vet come out, or is to IV for milk fever, and we vaccinate our calves. So a couple times a year for that. We, as far as the crops go, we’re rotating continuously with with the corn and the triticale. I don’t get much for disease or pests. You know, there’s always those extreme years where, yeah, aphids come in and just wreak havoc on alfalfa for first crop or something. But it’s, it’s not going to ruin me as far as the farm goes. So that has been a big shift. It’s, it’s definitely still a struggle, like with these giant ragweeds. I walk every acre of my row crops and pull. Something that shifted that hurt us in the beginning was when we had a really weedy field, it was, well, we did our bestwe’ll harvest it and see what we end up with. That mentality ruined a couple of our fields. The seed bank is so heavy and I can’t put row crops anymore. Now, if I get a field that I couldn’t keep up with, I’ll cut that corn down if I, if I can reach it with the cows, it is a blast to graze cattle in, you know, corn that’s about ready to tassel. Once you get them in there, they love it. And they will mow that field and the ragweeds down to, you know, six, eight inches of stubble. It is fun. And to hear your neighbors ask what you’re doing when you’re out there with a mower just mowing down full standing corn. It’s kind of fun too, but we’ve learned that that’s just rather than letting those weeds go to seed and wrecking the future of that field, take a hit now it’s well worth it. So that has changed. Just sacrifice a little bit now to save later.

Junior Eichelkraut 30:04
Certainly a lot less stress going on with the whole farming operation.

Will Fulwider 30:09
Yeah, I think that’s key, is being able to figure out the cropping system that works for not only your farm but your lifestyle, right? And Darren and Junior, could you talk briefly a little bit about the cropping system you do have now, where you have triticale is an important part of your operation. You mentioned feeding high moisture corn, but the triticale is also important. And kind of where you see that going into the future, as you think about, you know, maybe not wanting to walk all the different rows of corn picking giant rags.

Darren Eichelkraut 30:39
Yes. So the the triticale. Triticale started simply because we used to put oats and as a nurse crop on our new seeding every spring, and that’s how we brought it up. Well with storms, weather, weed pressure, more and more, that was just getting to be a huge headache. Come time to combine those oats was that they were down. They were green, full of weeds. It was a struggle.

Junior Eichelkraut 31:09
We actually lost fields of seeding in that manner because, because the oats was down, it was weedy, and we just couldn’t deal with it.

Darren Eichelkraut 31:16
So I had, I don’t remember where, but had heard of about triticale and thought, well, I’m going to get some and soon as we take our corn off, I’ll run a disc over the corn stubble and throw the seed out and see what happens. It grew beautifully. It didn’t take a lot of effort. The weeds did not come through it. Combined, it had, you know, I don’t know if we were getting around 60 bushel or so with no added fertilizers or inputs, and those first couple years just had this seed. And what do you do with this seed? Everybody said, well, you can’t feed it. The only thing you can do is stick it back in the dirt. So I found a couple guys that would buy it for cover cropping. And then I think after a couple years of that, it was just, this is a headache. And I finally found some research from New Zealand, I believe, where they fed it and said, this is great stuff. And tried put it through the roller mill, started implementing it into the ration as far as we feed each our barn is a tie stall barn, and each cow is fed individually. So I just took a scoop like, alright, let’s try. You know, maybe four pounds a day. The cattle loved it. They they ate it all up. I didn’t have any problems with it. I had it sampled or tested to see what we were feeding. And I don’t remember exact numbers, but the starch is lower than corn, but the proteins a little higher, well balanced amino acids. So it worked great with the cattle. I slowly brought that up to where now, along with the corn, my cows are getting about eight pounds of rolled triticale a day, in addition to the corn. And I make my own heifer feed and calf starter, and that is strictly rolled triticale, oats, I buy a protein pellet to mix in with those, and then some salt and mineral, and that has really replaced a lot of the corn in my cattle ration. I have yet, you know, if you get a thin spot in the field, the giant rags may start to come up through it when, when the triticale is drying off. But they’re thin. They’re spindly. They never go to seed. It’s not an issue. So that has helped get us be allow us to be able to rotate fields that otherwise I wouldn’t be able to do with a row crop because of weed pressure. I would like to going forward, I just put some winter barley in this year to see how that goes, because that’ll change our our timing as far as harvesting and help split things up. But I would love to, in the future, completely get away from corn, not because I think it’s a bad crop, but just because of of the time consumption and the tillage needed to maintain a clean and healthy crop and go strictly to winter small grains for getting the extra energy into my cattle. I don’t have the equipment for silage, so that’s why I don’t go that route. My only obstacle right now from from taking that next step is, I just don’t have the storage on farm. I would need to put up a grain bin to be able to put up enough grain for eliminating corn altogether. So that’s kind of the only reason that hasn’t happened yet. Is just storage for that grain. But that is, that is my goal is to completely replace annual or it’s still an annual. It row crops with triticale and barley.

Will Fulwider 35:04
Well, I hope that winter barley comes back in the spring after we’ve had no snow covered it’s been pretty dang cold.

Darren Eichelkraut 35:11
Well, I planted it under your supervision. Will so that fails. You know who to blame?

Will Fulwider 35:17
Yeah, that’s gonna come back to bite me. But no, I have confidence in the winter barley, but we’ll see. Well, Darren and Junior, thank you so much for your time today having this great discussion about transitions on farm, we really appreciate talking with you both.

Junior Eichelkraut 35:36
Yeah, thank you.

Darren Eichelkraut 35:37
Yep.

Will Fulwider 35:48
Before we go, I wanted to mention the Transition to Organic Partnership Program that seeks to fill the void that Darren and Junior saw in their transition to organic. To learn more about resources on organic transition from UW Extension, reach out to Arianna Abbrescia. Thanks for listening. This has been Field Notes from UW Madison extension. My name is Will Fulwider, Regional Crops Educator for Dane and Dodge counties, and I was joined for a final time by my co host, Michael Geissinger, outreach specialist in Northwest Wisconsin for the nutrient and pest management program. A great big thank you to Michael for helping to come up with this idea for Field Notes, and we will miss him dearly as he goes on to his next chapter. Also a big thank you to Joe Ryan for creating our theme music, and to Abby Wilkymacky for our logo. If you have any questions about anything you’ve heard today or about for your farming practices in general, reach out to the extension agriculture educators serving your region.